Super169

64 bit OS 就用番 native 64 bit 喇, 行 Win32 既 app 佢係要 emulate win32 的, 多一層無好處.  有得選的話, 有 64bit 既 app 就一定係選 64 bit.

32 bit OS 就無得選擇, 一定係 32bit 喇.

不過.....MS 係叫人用番32bit......可能係舊既 add-on 仲係32bit多.

big_nature

如果64bit windows 8,
你裝office 2010/2013，
default 係會自動同你裝32bit

usei

因為我跟機裝時巳經係裝o左 office 2013 32bit,但好多時起outlook打好或回覆mail 時一sent mail 時個out ...
more 發表於 2013-12-29 15:56

outlook 的 PST 是一個古老的問題
一個 PST file 存大量 email 容易出問題

livemail 改成一個 email 一個 file 避免出問題

黑面人

想問問, 如果outlook 2013 run icloud個calendar
會唔會起personal folder度, 無哂today event show出來呀?
或者outlook 2013, 有無辦法可以sync去google calendar呀?

goshigoo

64 bit OS 就用番 native 64 bit 喇, 行 Win32 既 app 佢係要 emulate win32 的, 多一層無好處.  有得選的 ...
Super169 發表於 2014-1-5 15:21

唔係emulate架, 32 bit app係 64 bit windows都係native咁係intel CPU直接行
CPU本身support 32 bit同64 bit app
只係32 bit application用唔到64 bit既cpu feature (e.g. 多啲register / 64 bit vs 32 bit bus / etc.)

Super169

唔係emulate架, 32 bit app係 64 bit windows都係native咁係intel CPU直接行
CPU本身support 32 bit同64 ...
goshigoo 發表於 2014-1-9 14:21

如果無記錯, 32bit application 應該係經 wow64 在 64bit windows 度行既, 而 wow64 本身就係一個 x86 emulator.
睇唔明你果句: "native 咁係 intel CPU 直接行, CPU本身support 32 bit同64 bit app" 到底想講乜.  

其實你知唔知家陣 32 bit / 64 bit win app 係點行架?  DOS 既年代都勉強可以咁講, 家陣 win app 經左咁多層, 仲有幾多 command 可以 bypass OS 同 hardware talk (何謂 native 直接行?)?  連 low level 既 interrupt call 好多都比 windows cap 哂喇, 更何況一般既 app?

goshigoo

如果無記錯, 32bit application 應該係經 wow64 在 64bit windows 度行既, 而 wow64 本身就係一個 x86 em ...
Super169 發表於 2014-1-9 15:17

佢同普通emulator唔同; 我都唔知可唔可以叫佢做emulator
一般emulator係translate CPU instructions from one to another
e.g. Android Emultor, 佢將compile做ARM既instructions係x86/64 CPU上行; 中間個emulator其實不停將ARM Machine code translate做x86/64既machine code
而我係呢個講既Win 32 App可以直接係Intel x64 CPU上直接行即係啲32 bit machine code唔使translate, 直接可以send俾x64 Intel CPU行

即係我講既Intel x64 CPU可以native咁行64/32 bits
所以Wow64做既野其實係load返啲32 bit dll/switch CPU to 32 bit mode/etc
個32 bit applications 係 64 bit windows最後都係直接natively係粒CPU行, 所以唔同一般emulator, performance會因為Wow64而慢咗

Reference:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-gb/library/windows/desktop/aa384219(v=vs.85).aspx
"Processor hardware. Instruction emulation is performed on the chip. On the x64 processor, instructions are executed natively by the micro-architecture. Therefore, execution speed under WOW64 on x64 is similar to its speed under 32-bit Windows"

Super169

回復 28# goshigoo

放心, 佢係咪 emulator 唔需要麻煩你去決定, 既然你 quote MSDN 既話, 應該知道 MS 自己點形容:

WOW64 is the x86 emulator that allows 32-bit Windows-based applications to run seamlessly on 64-bit Windows.

....如果佢咁講你都有懷疑既, 可能只係因為你對 emulator 既理解大家唔同.

其實佢同 android emulator 既原理係一樣既, 只不過佢係 emaulate 番一個 32bit 既環境出黎比個 app 行.  你 execute 個 app, 唔係在 cpu 上叫佢行, 而係在 OS 上行的, 再由 OS 轉番落去.  唔係淨係講 cpu instuction, 行一個 program, 經好多層至去到 hardware level 既, 你好似忘記左中間有個 OS.

你不斷講 native 咁行, 其實一個 app, 有幾多地方係直接 cpu instruction?  有幾多部份係 windows 既 API call?  DOS 既年代, 你都仲可以一句 machine code direct set 個 address 既 value 去 display 一個 character, 家陣經 win api 出, complie 完都只係一堆比 windows execute 既 code, 入面好多都係 call 番 windows 再轉落去, 如果 .net 既就更加要經 framework 去行.  如果咁叫 native 比 cpu 行既話, 你話 intel cpu native support 埋 javaScript 都得.

或者, 你試諗下 32bit app 到 cpu 既 32bit instruction set 之間有幾多層.

既然你都搵到 MSDN 有關既部份, 你應該睇埋其他既幾樣, 睇下 WOW64 點樣可以在 64bit windows 行番 32bit application.

仲有一樣, 你 quote 果段, 希望你細心睇清楚, 佢只係話佢會行番好似 win32 app under 32 bit OS 既速度 (只係 similar, 因為 overhead 細, 而唔係無) , 唔係話佢可以同 64bit app 一樣.  我地原本係比較緊 64bit app 同  32bit app, 唔係比較 32bit app in 64bit OS vs 32bit app in 32bit OS. 

或者慢慢諗清楚 app, os, cpu 呢三樣野既位置.

goshigoo

我真係唔知點define emulator, 所以我自己都講咗出黎
但我想講係Wow同一般講既Emulator(Console Game / Android) 唔同

其實我主要想講係唔係native咁行, native意思唔係中間冇晒Win32 DLL/kernal/etc
你明唔明application其實係點compile/點係CPU行架?

Wow64:
-----
32 bit Application (x86)
Win32 DLL (x86)
Kernal (x86/x64)
x64 CPU (can execute both x86/x64 instructions)

Android Emulator:
-----
Android Application (ARM Instructions)
Android Emulator (ARM Instructions -> x86 instructions)
Win32 DLL (x86)
Kernal (x86/x64)
x64 CPU (can execute both x86/x64 instructions)

我講緊32 bit application compile做native code之後如果係Windows 64/Wow咁行係唔使再recompile/translate過啲code; 同Android Emulator 唔同

"或者, 你試諗下 32bit app 到 cpu 既 32bit instruction set 之間有幾多層."
呢樣野用application <-> CPU之間有幾多層係冇關係架.....
我諗你以為每一層都好似一個virtual machine咁?!?!

你要諗清楚 app, os, cpu 呢三樣野其實係點先....