作者: pallee 時間: 2019-6-10 12:27 標題: 尋聲 XS03
本帖最後由 pallee 於 2019-6-10 13:26 編輯
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作者: pallee 時間: 2019-6-10 12:30
本帖最後由 pallee 於 2019-6-10 13:35 編輯
完全是枱擴線路設計和用料
DAC
AK4493 x 2, mono mode for each audio channel
LPF
THS4151 x 2, they are also the differential amplifiers, convert 8 channels (from two 4493) to 4 channels (L+, L-, R+, R-)
VAS
OPA1612 x 2, voltage amplification stage
Output stage
8 x BJT in 4 pairs push pull class A, current amplification
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-6-10 12:37
本帖最後由 pallee 於 2019-6-11 10:30 編輯
It can drive up to 300 ohm headphones. On 600 ohm headphones, output power is not enough. Test was done on 3.5 mm stereo port. I will test it again on 3.5 mm balanced port later.
作者: 1543 時間: 2019-6-10 12:53
謝謝分享，看來非常不錯。
作者: tskso 時間: 2019-6-10 13:15
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作者: pallee 時間: 2019-6-10 13:29
它的線路設計與日系的枱擴 (Pioneer, Teac) 很相似, 但用了 class A output stage.
I am not a big fan of class A. I know class A drawbacks. I like class AB more.
作者: philipsrev 時間: 2019-6-10 13:36
唔知同紫珊比較如果？
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-6-10 13:49
本帖最後由 pallee 於 2019-6-10 14:09 編輯
回覆 7# philipsrev
Not at the same level. You cannot compare a DAP with a desktop headphone amp. XS03 has a complete different analog circuit design (differential amplifier, voltage amplification stage, push pull power transistor output stage).
But I worry about the battery life. Such a design is power hungry.
I think XS03 is good for buyers without a desktop DAC and headphone amp. It serves 2 purposes. You can use it at home and on the walk both. At home, you can use AC adaptor for long playing time.
I don't want to write a review now because I have not tested it with 600 ohm headphones. I am still waiting for my 3.5 mm balanced cable to come.
作者: leungleung1234 時間: 2019-6-10 14:12
回復 8 #pallee
我比較有興趣想知可不可以直接將3.5平衡線插過3.5單端位，我記得尋聲部FA2唔支援，結果要轉插要可以係3.5單端位支援3.5平衡線。
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作者: countryboy 時間: 2019-6-10 14:13
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作者: pallee 時間: 2019-6-10 14:22
本帖最後由 pallee 於 2019-6-10 14:27 編輯
回覆 9# leungleung1234
3.5平衡線 -> 3.5單端位 No, only R channel sounds, L- is open and L channel is no sound
3.5單端線 -> 3.5平衡位 No, L- and R- short circuit, it will burn your machine
Indeed 3.5 mm balanced plug is a headache to me.
作者: leungleung1234 時間: 2019-6-10 14:34
回復 11 #pallee
即是同FA2的設計一樣，有點可惜。
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作者: philipsrev 時間: 2019-6-10 15:12
回覆 philipsrev
Not at the same level. You cannot compare a DAP with a desktop headphone amp. XS0 ...
pallee 發表於 2019-6-10 13:49
除咗電量，發熱量都係令人考慮嘅原因。
作者: kkzzst 時間: 2019-6-10 16:44
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作者: 抽水皇 時間: 2019-6-10 22:33
两元包唔包運費？
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-6-12 21:56
本帖最後由 pallee 於 2019-6-12 22:01 編輯
用 3.5 單端推 600 ohm headphones 推力不足, 返了條平衡線再試。完全不同了。
headphones
Beyer T1 G2 XLR converted to 3.5 mm balanced
VAS
OPA2604 x 2
XS03 推力十足, 聲音細節還原很好。OPA2604 很有胆味。整體超岀預期。
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作者: pallee 時間: 2019-6-12 22:13
聽了 2 天都用 T1,電池可用 6 小時左右。IEM 應可更長。
我買的是細電池 3000 mA 訂制版本。
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-6-14 12:03
因為好奇,買了 2 粒 HDAM 9988 放在 XS03 試試
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作者: pallee 時間: 2019-6-14 12:08
之前沒想過在細機上玩 HDAM, 因 HDAM 推力很小, 只適合用在前中級。XS03 有獨立後級, 所以試用於 VAS voltage amplification stage.
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-6-14 12:16
本帖最後由 pallee 於 2019-6-14 12:28 編輯
人聲和樂器分離度高了, 微細訊號 (如人聲尾音和細樂器好像風鈴等) 還原得很好, 沒有黏連。
With high slew rate and redundant FET, HDAM outputs a very accurate signal.
作者: 五拾 時間: 2019-6-14 14:53
個3.5平衡堅定流?
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-6-14 15:00
回覆 21# 五拾
Four wires from tip to tail.
作者: 五拾 時間: 2019-6-14 16:10
回覆 22# pallee
拆機睇2個3.5底座係ー樣
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-6-14 16:42
本帖最後由 pallee 於 2019-6-14 16:45 編輯
回覆 23# 五拾
No, connections are different at two ports.
When you plug a balanced 3.5 mm cable to the stereo port, R doesn't sound. Hence stereo port has 3 wires only (R- unconnected).
If you plug the same cable to the balanced port, the 4th wire is restored. Both L and R sound. Hence balanced port has 4 wires (L+, R+, L-, R-).
It may uses the same material on two ports but the stereo port has the 4th pin unconnected.
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-6-14 16:49
回覆 23# 五拾
立體聲座焊少咗一條針 (第四針), 也把第三針焊接地。
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-6-14 16:58
With HDAM 9988 opamp, battery drops more rapidly. XS03 becomes warmer while playing. Max. playing time is around 5 hours only.
HDAM opamp draws more power due to redundant transistors
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-6-25 21:57
上次用了 高電壓版 HDAM 9988 (9 - 27 V), 有低頻量少的情況,原來 UNDERVOLT 咗。XS03 是 8 V 機。
換了 低電壓版 HDAM 9988 (4 - 18 V), 完全沒問題了。
單端已非常好聲, 平衡再提升了聲音分離度和樂器定位。
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-6-25 21:57
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作者: pallee 時間: 2019-6-25 22:04
低電壓版 HDAM 9988 是貼片, 我又不想用熱風槍, 所以叫 OPAMP 店家幫我加針。還要用裸針去局限高度 (否則合不到蓋)。店家也很幫忙, 沒有多收我錢。
作者: leungleung1234 時間: 2019-12-14 19:57
低電壓版 HDAM 9988 是貼片, 我又不想用熱風槍, 所以叫 OPAMP 店家幫我加針。還要用裸針去局限高度 (否則合 ...
pallee 發表於 2019-6-25 22:04
師兄因為我打算入手這部機，所以想問一下你可不可以PM的我你是在那家淘寶店買低電壓版HDAM 9988呢？
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作者: pallee 時間: 2019-12-14 21:51
本帖最後由 pallee 於 2019-12-14 22:05 編輯
回覆 30# leungleung1234
No. If you want to try, I can let you try them. HDAM IC opamp is a fake. No spec. is available. Don't go for this product name in any case. I found the truth out lately.
Finally I installed 4 x LME49990. They give the best result. But they are expensive and difficult to buy. You also have to do short pin soldering by yourselves. The soldering is not easy.
I suggest you to buy the stocked OPA1612 version for simplicity. It already exceeds many DAP in terms of sound quality.
作者: leungleung1234 時間: 2019-12-14 22:21
回覆 leungleung1234
No. If you want to try, I can let you try them. HDAM IC opamp is a fake. No s ...
pallee 發表於 2019-12-14 21:51
多謝師兄解答，想請問你指的LME49990是不是LME49990MA，我見淘寶有賣貼片轉直插的版本 (約60元)，你指的請問是不是就是這款呢?
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-12-14 22:22
本帖最後由 pallee 於 2019-12-14 22:24 編輯
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作者: pallee 時間: 2019-12-14 22:28
回覆 32# leungleung1234
RMB 60 is quite certain fake. Now a single LME49990 costs 50. Four cost 200. And you also need the conversion boards and short pins. Without good soldering skill (or hot gun), I suggest you to give up such mod.
作者: leungleung1234 時間: 2019-12-14 22:36
回覆 34# pallee
明白，多謝師兄細心的解答，那我還是先用回OPA1612吧，謝謝你。
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-12-14 22:45
One weakness of Chifi DAPs is the battery. It happens to almost all DAPs in this kind. They use stock lithium battery in market. The max. output current is not big. Small current cannot drive the output circuit to the best level.
Branded DAPs (e. g. Sony, Onkyo) have their own designed batteries. Output current is bigger.
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-12-14 23:01
OPA1612 ratings are high. It is a good opamp IC.
It is just not very musical (too plain).
作者: leungleung1234 時間: 2019-12-17 17:09
OPA1612 ratings are high. It is a good opamp IC.
It is just not very musical (too plain).
pallee 發表於 2019-12-14 23:01
今日收到機聽左陣，部機偏暖聲，表現的確幾好。原裝的Opa1612感覺有點淡，雖然人聲結象清楚，但就有點欠韻味。本身我另外有訂到muses8820，不過要等幾日後先收到，希望到時換左可以令d 人聲甜d喇。
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作者: 天大笑話 時間: 2019-12-17 17:13
呢部機同紫珊z2 mod比升級大唔大
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作者: leungleung1234 時間: 2019-12-17 17:21
回覆 39# 天大笑話
Z2本身無mon，操作用得好辛苦下。呢部有個mon同埋有3.5平衡，升級都算大
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-12-17 18:50
回覆 39# 天大笑話
紫珊 is not at the same level.
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-12-17 18:52
回覆 38# leungleung1234
OPA1612 is an all around good IC opamp.
At small voltage amplification, it reproduces many details. It is just a bit plane.
作者: leungleung1234 時間: 2019-12-17 19:11
回覆 leungleung1234
OPA1612 is an all around good IC opamp.
At small voltage amplification, it ...
pallee 發表於 2019-12-17 18:52
我以前有聽過人話muses d opamp要煲起碼20個鐘d 聲先會正常，其實煲opamp是不是需要的呢?
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-12-17 19:34
回覆 43# leungleung1234
Burn-in is just a myth in audio industry.
Components should work good since first power up. May be E-cap needs a short run-in time (15 min) at first (to allow the electrolytic paste to flow), others don't.
If a component performs with a noticeable and measurable variety after 100 hours, how can it come to the market (with such poor stability)? This also applies to any product.
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-12-17 19:47
I don't believe in any kind of 煲 (amp, headphones, player, wire, speaker, etc.). It is just a myth.
There is no measurable difference after 10 or 100 hours of operation (for sure, otherwise the product cannot come to the market with such poor stability).
Audio industry created this myth is to persuade you to try more on a bad product. After some hours of usage, you will feel the product better due to brain experience curve. Yes, you have burnt-in your brain. It is a commonly known psychological behavior. When you do a thing repeatedly, you will find it better and better due to accumulation in brain experience curve.
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-12-17 19:51
But I don't like to argue with others on 煲.
Indeed, brain burn-in is not a bad thing. Human are using brain to listen to music. Ears are just receiving tool (receiver). You know what I mean if you know what is "stereo" and "wave interference".
作者: leungleung1234 時間: 2019-12-17 20:28
But I don't like to argue with others on 煲.
Indeed, brain burn-in is not a bad thing. Human are u ...
pallee 發表於 2019-12-17 19:51
你咁講都有d道理。講番部機真係幾得意，本身d聲已經唔錯，重可以靠換opamp來調教d聲，價錢又唔算好貴，真係幾抵玩。唯一缺點係我發現佢有d歌出唔到cover幅圖(但有d又得wor) ，不過呢d小問題睇下佢遲d有無firmware upgrade去fix喇
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-12-17 21:21
回覆 47# leungleung1234
Cover pixel should be rounded to nearest 100 (e. g. 400x400, 500x500).
作者: waltyuen 時間: 2019-12-18 13:14
回覆 41# pallee
話說尋聲真是高一個LEVEL
PCB 已經優良過紫3 (都關COST事)
話就 我飯盒2 吹走2粒OPAMP 時 無為意 三極管有粒電阻 受埋熱力飛左, 懶得度 , 直接問 客服竟然真是即覆參數.
----------------------------------------------------
尋聲 XS03 原來有 DIP 座
作者: leungleung1234 時間: 2019-12-18 13:17
回復 49 #waltyuen
XS03 有分可換運放版同一般版，可換運放版舊電得3000mah，無得換運放個版本就有4000mah。
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作者: pallee 時間: 2019-12-18 13:18
回覆 49# waltyuen
尋聲 is catching up to 學林 level.
學林 is the most versatile analog circuit design brand. But its products are too expensive.
作者: waltyuen 時間: 2019-12-18 13:19
回覆 43# leungleung1234
我理解是佢D 腳軟 唔焊 上座後 等返D金屬彎過後 順返D 就是個20粒鐘
但我 不愛MUSES 聲
作者: waltyuen 時間: 2019-12-18 13:22
回覆 51# pallee
學林 真是無聽過. 有想過入佢部 CLASS A HEADAMP 但個價9衝唔到
作者: leungleung1234 時間: 2019-12-18 13:24
回復 52 #waltyuen
你呢個講法好有趣好科學
部機暫時都玩得幾開心，最可惜佢3.5單端唔可以直接插3.5平衡線，明明同樣係3.5頭都要用轉插。如果佢能夠好似qa361咁能夠唔加轉插都可以係單端上面直插平衡線，咁就更加方便了via HKEPC Reader for Android
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-12-18 13:32
回覆 [url=https://www.hkepc.com/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=390176 04&ptid=2503413]51#[/url] pallee
Replacable opamp is not a pro indeed. When the design is finished and best components are used, no change is required.
尋聲 DAP uses 3 levels signal amplification stages. It is very difficult to do in a small PCB. The output stage employs push pull class A amplifier. Therefore two + and two - audio signals are required. It makes use of all benefits from dual DAC chips (8 -> 4 outputs). That's why its dual 4493 beats many single 4497 players. The design is very good though I am not a fan of class A (I prefer class AB).
I also like its newer FA3 model. It has 2.5 balanced port. The old 3.5 balanced port is troublesome.
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-12-18 13:39
回覆 54# leungleung1234
The most convenient way is to buy a 2.5 (female) to 3.5 (male) balanced plug (4 rings on both in and out). It is like adding a 2.5 balanced port to XS03. Then all 2.5 IEM can be used.
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-12-18 13:43
回覆 52# waltyuen
This is also a myth. It doesn't comply with material science.
作者: leungleung1234 時間: 2019-12-18 13:43
回復 56 #pallee
我本身大部份的線也是3.5平衡而不是2.5平衡，所以不用買2.5轉3.5的adapter
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作者: leungleung1234 時間: 2019-12-18 13:50
回復 56 #pallee
我有一個想法，如果我將3.5 單端插口位的第3和第4的接點short 埋佢。咁理論上係唔係就可以插入平衡線右面都有聲？(當然無平衡效果得番單端聲喇）
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作者: pallee 時間: 2019-12-18 13:58
回覆 59# leungleung1234
Yes. indeed most 3.5 stereo ports have a big ground plate. Your 3.5 balanced plug works as a usual stereo plug.
尋聲 just doesn't have this kind of port. Its 3.5 stereo port ground plate is small (doesn't touch 2 rings). So it is troublesome.
作者: waltyuen 時間: 2019-12-18 15:11
回覆 57# pallee
回覆 54# leungleung1234
當吹水 用來合理化個傳說
作者: leungleung1234 時間: 2019-12-18 16:38
回覆 61# waltyuen
哈哈
，只要合理化到個傳說，就可以打開傳說中的腦放功能，音色就會自然變好。
作者: waltyuen 時間: 2019-12-18 16:41
回覆 62# leungleung1234
腦放很重要腦放很重要腦放很重要
作者: df7 時間: 2019-12-18 22:32
原本都打算700人仔買黎玩下, 不過3.5平衡線, TB好少見有.....暫時放棄
各位在那裡入3.5平衡線?
作者: pallee 時間: 2019-12-18 23:02
回覆 64# df7
Just buy along at 尋聲. She makes some types.
HD650
MMCX
0.78
作者: leungleung1234 時間: 2019-12-19 00:26
回覆 64# df7
係瘦佬到訂線是可以要求3.5平衡頭的，又或者淘寶很多訂線的店也可以要求做3.5平衡頭。如果你真係想買機，要問清楚係發可換運放的版本定還是不可換運放的版本，事關XS03是有兩個版本的。
作者: df7 時間: 2019-12-19 23:13
回覆 df7
係瘦佬到訂線是可以要求3.5平衡頭的，又或者淘寶很多訂線的店也可以要求做3.5平衡頭。如 ...
leungleung1234 發表於 2019-12-19 00:26
先謝，有留意，差30，不過自己唔識换，所以原身就好了
作者: leungleung1234 時間: 2019-12-20 00:18
回覆 67# df7
可換運放的版本已有插座，所以要換的話也很方便簡單(感覺就好似插顯示卡去電腦底板咁)。不過如果唔打算換，電池大d可以播耐d都好既
作者: leungleung1234 時間: 2019-12-21 20:44
今日換左2粒8820落去，雖然分析力比1612弱左，但覺得人聲比之前好聽左，較合我個人口味。下午係瘦佬到找了幾位師兄試聽，大家對部機都有正面評價啊。
作者: appleli1217 時間: 2020-2-8 08:12
原本都打算700人仔買黎玩下, 不過3.5平衡線, TB好少見有.....暫時放棄
各位在那裡入3.5平衡線? ...
df7 發表於 2019-12-18 22:32
我是在這店淘，加錢改線
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圖片附件: Uploaded_via_HKEPC_IR_Pro_iOS(07D32).jpg (2020-2-8 08:10, 141.27 KB) / 下載次數 120https://h0.hkepc.com/forum/attachment.php?aid=2175078&k=5c3332ea968d34b5ad6144406636b745&t=1781439148&sid=11lB0a0eWcR
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作者: tskso 時間: 2020-2-12 04:05
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作者: leungleung1234 時間: 2020-2-12 10:26
回復 71 #tskso
其實係瘦佬個度訂線可以要求3.5 平衡頭的
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作者: tskso 時間: 2020-2-12 18:50
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作者: leungleung1234 時間: 2020-2-12 19:14
本帖最後由 leungleung1234 於 2020-2-12 19:20 編輯
回覆 73# tskso
應該買貴價少少的線有機會唔駛特別加錢，你有機會可以問下，是關我之前買線時(粗22AWG銅那條)話要3.5平衡頭都無特別加我錢
作者: tskso 時間: 2020-2-12 19:25
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